Strange guide vocie behaviour with IVA-W520R

[juergen]

Hallo.
For some days i have a strange problem with the guide vioce.
The first time, after power up, the HU (headunit) screen change to the navigation view and stays there until i touch the touchscreen. After that, it switches back to navigation, every time a new direction is queued.

But now comes the strange part of this all:
If i do not touch the screen after a direction, it stays there.
With every new direction the screen switches back to the main source (tuner, USB, CD/DVD) for the time of the direction and then switches back to the navigation view. This is fairly odd.

I made a reset of my IVA-W520R, disconnected it from power, setup a new SDCARD with iGO, but nothing helps.
I am sure, this worked at first.

Maybe you have any hints to find out, if the headunit or the CS9100 needs more attention?

[Chortenia]

Hello!
We didn't face such problems, you should contact the Alpine support. Apparently, there is problem with IVA-W520R, either it is faulty or connected incorrectly.

Best regards,
Car Solutions Team

[juergen]

I checked everything more then twice.
All connectors were attached correctly.
I put a video on youtube of this.
What makes me confused is the inverted behaviour of the screen switching.
I'll let you know, if i have something new about it.

[juergen]

So ready for round two!

I did some measurements today. As i have two RGB cables for my Alpien HU (=headunit), one of them has both wires (guid-voice and camera) diverted at the data-connector.
I first checked th econnections and everythign is ok.
Then i took my very hansy DSO nano and checked the voltage (sorry, no video yet) and it was inverted, whic means (nearly) grounded without guide voice activity and somewhat over 9V with guide command.
The voltage looks like it is floating and varys some +/-50mV. My Multimeter is a bit too slow to show this.

The voltage levels and HU behaviour are clearly visible in this video.

Sorry for flipping upside down during playback, i have noclue why this happened...

The guide-voice pin at the HU is slightly above 4,9V unconected (via pullup resistor) and works as it should - grounded switches to navigation unit, floating shows HU screen.

[juergen]

there is problem with IVA-W520R, either it is faulty or connected incorrectly.

As i found out meanwhile there isn't...
I thought you replied, as it is now clear that this comes from the CS9100.
As the pullup resistor in the Alpine IVA-W520R nly goes to 5V it cannnotbe the source of the 9V on the guidevioice control line, besides the fact that the IVA behaves to the different voltage levels as it should and the new cable for the headunit differs slightly from th eone i had but both were ok.

[Chortenia]

Probably, the problem is with the mute signal. Let's make an experiment.
1. Download "MUTE" archive
2. Eject the memory card from the CS9100 navigation box and insert in the PC.
3. Copy "TPC" folder from the archive to the memory card root.
4. Eject the memory card from the PC and insert in the CS9100 navigation box.
5. Apply power, go to the settings and select "Explorer" icon".
6. "Total commander" window will appear. In one window go to the "SDMMC Disk" memory card, in another one on the "ResidentFlash" - copy TPC folder to the "ResidentFlash" root.
7. Run the executive file "TPC_REG_Patch.exe" and wait until the message about the patch work completion appears and press "ОК".
8. Run \\ResidentFlash\TPC\Mute.exe, press the "MUTE" button, after that press "SAVE & EXIT". Launch igo and inform about the results.

[juergen]

I installed the patch.
But the only thing that changed is that i have to re-calibrate the touchscreen, which was not easy as the remote does not work either after applying the patch. So i have to unmount everythign and hook up a USB keyboard. I did not test the remote, but touch works now.

The guide voice problem is unchanged. Still opposite behaviour as expected. Same voltage levels.
I am sure, this is a real hardware problem. Maybe you can give me some more advanced help by email?

[Chortenia]

You needed to synchronize the remote control with CS9100 by pressing and holding RETURN and HOME.
It looks like when the sound goes from the navigation box, the head unit switches to the OEM screen. The problem is in the head unit settings or some wire may be connected incorrectly. First of all check the head unit settings, advanced menu which appears when you connect the wire PARKING(SAFE) to the ground.

If nothing helps we recommend applying to the Alpine technical specialists, because they know their head units better.

[juergen]

[/quote]It looks like when the sound goes from the navigation box, the head unit switches to the OEM screen. The problem is in the head unit settings or some wire may be connected incorrectly.[/quote]
Sorry, but i checked it several times.
Guide voice control low -> CS9100 screen is displayed
Guide voice control high -> IVA-W520R screen is displayed.
As yopu may know, signals like mute, tel-mute or guide voice are active-low singals, as it is, for one of several reasons, easier to connect them to other units wothout dealing with different voltage levels as the wire only needs to be pulled down to GND.
The video i made demonstrateds this. The navi screen is displayed whenever the guide voice line is low, no matter what the audio line does. I checked this with the older CS9100-Alpien cable, which had both wires (guide voice and video) spliced out at one of the two CS9100 connnectors. When pulled low without any conection to CS9100, the radio behauves as expected.
The screen is switched immediately after the control line voltage level changes.

As you know, wires cannot be connected in a wrong way without excessive force and damageing at minimum the socket, as every plug only fits in one socket.

Can you tell me, if the [u]very uncommon and unusual[/u] ~9V at the guide voice control line is ok? Becaue it is floating serveal 100mV. I think this is not as it should, i tlooks to me, as if there is some faulty circuitry driving that line to GND.

[juergen]

So to get it clear i contacted the Alpine support and asked them for a statement about the guidevoice pin in english and this is the answer i got:

Code: Select all

The guide line are in the standard case 5V +. If the navigation speaks, the
voltage drops to 0V-0,3V (not ground !!)

So again, what about the very unstable 9V at the guide line coming from the CS9100 at guidevoice activity and why is it exact the opposite behaviour (low when guidevoice @idle)?

[Chortenia]

We checked voltage from CS9200 on the Mute wire: 10 V when the navigation is silent, falls to 0 V when the navigation produces sound. So it's not clear where you measured the voltage.
Please, provide the photos/video displaying how everything's connected and points of voltage measuring.
We'll try to find out the problem.

[juergen]

Hallo.

falls to 0 V when the navigation produces sound

This is exactly what i expect from the guidevoice control line (like so called 'active-low').
The guidevoice control line is pin#4 at the Alpine RGB connector and pin#1 at the CS9X00 data connector, as it is also spliced out at the data plug together with the 'rearview camera activation pin# 2' and labeled with their corresponding pin# at the older version of the AP-RGB1 adapter cable for the navibox.

Maybe you can give me some hints (part#) where to measure on the PCB.

[Chortenia]

You can measure voltage on the pin #1 of the data connector or on the white wire of the CS9200 power cable (marked as mute). They are joined on the board; you can measure in both places. Don’t dismantle the navigation box. The warranty can become void after that.

[juergen]

We checked voltage from CS9200 on the Mute wire: 10 V when the navigation is silent, falls to 0 V when the navigation produces sound. So it's not clear where you measured the voltage.
Please, provide the photos/video displaying how everything's connected and points of voltage measuring.
We'll try to find out the problem.

Ok. Unfortunaely pictures will take some time, as i have to umount everything for this.
I 'only' have a CS9100, btu ia msure, the guidevoice thing is very similar.
But i did not measure 10V. There wer only sonething aorund very fluctuazing 9V.
nd i noticed, that i cannto open the comport at the UART connector. I can do it with the GPS and mouse (i get the tuchscreen date, did not test the remote), but i got an error when trying to open the thrid one. Sorry, di dnot remember the comport numbers yet. I tried it with Putty (my favorite) and some other tools i put on the SD for a short testing time.
Maybe the comort thing is a side effect of the guidevoise problem?

You can measure voltage on the pin #1 of the data connector or on the white wire of the CS9200 power cable (marked as mute). They are joined on the board; you can measure in both places. Don’t dismantle the navigation box. The warranty can become void after that.

I did this at the wire, coming out of the Alpine RGB Cable for the CS9100. Alternatively i measured it with an KCE-900E, which also works the 'oppisite way', as it is mainly designed to get signals out of the Alpine Navi units, but ist also works for probing ans measuring them.

[Chortenia]

Hi.
It's hard to give some more pieces of advice without photos/video.